Post by brianpickton on Jun 13, 2006 9:19:55 GMT -4
I am surprised to find that there is no one design racing at DYC, given the maturity of the club and the interest in racing. I expect the issue has been raised in the past without a satisfactory result, but would like to find out if there is interest in pursuing this further. I have to admit I am motivated by self interest, having sold my Beneteau I am looking at other smaller boats for use on local waters for Wednesday night racing and the occasional overnighter with my wife. I have promised her not to buy a boat until next year in order not to simply plunge into the next boat. For me this presents a window of opportunity to promote one design sailing over the summer and winter months.
There is definitely a greater thrill to racing if you know exactly where you stand as you cross the finish line rather than having to wait for the race committee to perform the black art of handicapping. Frankly I think one design racing, whether in dinghies or keel boats, would promote sailing far better than handicap racing, which, lets face it, waiting for a result can be nearly as exciting as kissing your sister.
It would take a group of sailors prepared to buy the same boat for racing to make one design happen. Having talked to a number of people at the club about this what I hear is that a lot of people would like to race one design but don't want to give up the family cruiser. Why can't they do both, namely have a cruiser that can also be used for racing? It might mean selling the family cruiser to get another cruiser of certain type, but that is what it is going to take to get one design keel boat racing started.
A number of designs offer this possibility that are locally available like the Kirby 25. Looking further afield the Tanzer 10, and C&C 27 are two other possible alternatives. If one is not careful the list can soon become endless. Before I buy my next boat I would like to find out if there is a sufficient interest from other sailors to make pursuing one design keel boat racing a reality at the DYC.
To digress for just a moment, I was surprised to find a remarkable and in my view short sighted local prejudice against one design dinghy racing. It seems the view is that dinghies are for kids and real men sail keel boats. Try telling that to Ken Dye who sailed a Wayfarer from Scotland to Iceland. Of course like most myths this one is simply nonsense.
Dinghies are raced by adults almost everywhere with many active fleets across the rest of Canada, the US, Europe etc. The advantages to racing one design dinghies are many: A new racing dinghy is cheap compared to any new keel boat or even an older keel boat in good condition, and is very economic to fully equip as well. A full set of racing sails for a dinghy would cost less than a single main sail for most keel boats. Because the costs are less you are more likely to have more boats on the water racing. Older boats tend to get handed down to the kids, maintaining the fleet and building new sailors.
Dinghies are readily sailed short handed and even a 49'er only requires a total crew of 2. A superbly conditioned, very athletic, perhaps even gymnastic 2, but still only 2. And that is to set a full complement of sails while flying on the trapeze. And they are fast; fast, fast, fast fast fast. To get a comparable thrill in a keel boat you have to be looking at a Melges 24 or perhaps a Mumms 30, and have you looked at the price of those, even used, lately?
Happily there are less demanding and less expensive dinghies for the rest of us. In addition, cost of maintenance is less, they can be trailered so do not need to be bottom painted, and storage in the off season is easy.
Part of the problem as I see it is that when you say "dinghy" people think "Lazer" which they only associate with kids, then they look at the price tag and think the kid's only going to use it for 3 or 4 years, so why spend the money? Better to buy hockey gear.
If they were thinking of using the boat for themselves it would be a different matter. I think another part of the equation is that when they think Lazer they see one sail only, and where is the fun in that? To which I must say I agree, and this is where the other dinghies that set main, jib and spinnaker come in.
Eliminating some excellent boats like the Fireball that don't have a commercial builder three possible contenders for our interest could be the Wayfarer, Hunter 170 and Martin 16. The first 2 are centerboard dinghies, the latter has 350 pound ballasted drop keel. None of them require trapeze work. There may be other designs that some of you would like to bring forward for discussion and consideration.
In terms of design, Ian Proctor created the Wayfarer in 1957 and it looks very much like a dinghy of that era. Having said that, it may well be the best all round dinghy ever built, and may well be the standard by which others are compared. There are others that are faster, but there are few that are more sea kindly. A remarkably forgiving design, it sets main, jib and spinnaker and are keenly raced in many fleets in North America and Europe, and are built by Abbott Boats in Ontario. The Picktonpit is surprisingly comfortable, and the boat rates 91.7 on the Portsmouth system.
The Hunter 170 by contrast, is a modern open transom design. Also setting 3 sails, it has a large ergonomically designed Picktonpit and rates 92.7 without spinnaker on the Portsmouth system. It actually is designed to set an asymmetrical chute. This implies that the H170 with spinnaker would be faster than the Wayfarer. Unlike the Wayfarer, you don't have to duck to get under the boom when tacking, because the Hunter offers sufficient headroom. It is designed to be single handed, but when racing and setting the chute a second crew is useful.
I have noted a local prejudice against Hunter boats, the claim being that they are too lightly built. I have not seen any evidence that would actually support such a claim, nor am I aware of any lawsuits against Hunter that would provide proof, unlike some other brands. Hunter claims that the material they use for the hull of the 170 is actually stronger than fiberglass, and in addition Hunter has an enviable record for service, which I was able to confirm through my own inquiries, which were answered the same day. Sunnybrook Yachts is a local Hunter dealer. The 170 is a worthy contender for our interest.
That leaves the Martin 16 which is an entirely different beast. Once again setting 3 sails and with a new taller rig, the Martin was originally designed for handicapped sailors. Built by Abbott Boats, the sail controls are a wonder of ease and sophistication, trimming both main and jib with a single line. As mentioned earlier the boat is actually ballasted, which takes it out of the league of the center boarders. It features a comfortable seat, joy stick steering and capacity for double handing. The Portsmouth rating is 99. These are also built by Abbott Boats Inc. in Ontario, which makes them reasonable accessible. A visit to the web site is worthwhile to learn more about them.
If you know of any other dinghies or keel boats that are currently being built that should be considered, bring them forward. That's plenty to chew on for now. I look forward to reading your comments.
Brian Pickton
There is definitely a greater thrill to racing if you know exactly where you stand as you cross the finish line rather than having to wait for the race committee to perform the black art of handicapping. Frankly I think one design racing, whether in dinghies or keel boats, would promote sailing far better than handicap racing, which, lets face it, waiting for a result can be nearly as exciting as kissing your sister.
It would take a group of sailors prepared to buy the same boat for racing to make one design happen. Having talked to a number of people at the club about this what I hear is that a lot of people would like to race one design but don't want to give up the family cruiser. Why can't they do both, namely have a cruiser that can also be used for racing? It might mean selling the family cruiser to get another cruiser of certain type, but that is what it is going to take to get one design keel boat racing started.
A number of designs offer this possibility that are locally available like the Kirby 25. Looking further afield the Tanzer 10, and C&C 27 are two other possible alternatives. If one is not careful the list can soon become endless. Before I buy my next boat I would like to find out if there is a sufficient interest from other sailors to make pursuing one design keel boat racing a reality at the DYC.
To digress for just a moment, I was surprised to find a remarkable and in my view short sighted local prejudice against one design dinghy racing. It seems the view is that dinghies are for kids and real men sail keel boats. Try telling that to Ken Dye who sailed a Wayfarer from Scotland to Iceland. Of course like most myths this one is simply nonsense.
Dinghies are raced by adults almost everywhere with many active fleets across the rest of Canada, the US, Europe etc. The advantages to racing one design dinghies are many: A new racing dinghy is cheap compared to any new keel boat or even an older keel boat in good condition, and is very economic to fully equip as well. A full set of racing sails for a dinghy would cost less than a single main sail for most keel boats. Because the costs are less you are more likely to have more boats on the water racing. Older boats tend to get handed down to the kids, maintaining the fleet and building new sailors.
Dinghies are readily sailed short handed and even a 49'er only requires a total crew of 2. A superbly conditioned, very athletic, perhaps even gymnastic 2, but still only 2. And that is to set a full complement of sails while flying on the trapeze. And they are fast; fast, fast, fast fast fast. To get a comparable thrill in a keel boat you have to be looking at a Melges 24 or perhaps a Mumms 30, and have you looked at the price of those, even used, lately?
Happily there are less demanding and less expensive dinghies for the rest of us. In addition, cost of maintenance is less, they can be trailered so do not need to be bottom painted, and storage in the off season is easy.
Part of the problem as I see it is that when you say "dinghy" people think "Lazer" which they only associate with kids, then they look at the price tag and think the kid's only going to use it for 3 or 4 years, so why spend the money? Better to buy hockey gear.
If they were thinking of using the boat for themselves it would be a different matter. I think another part of the equation is that when they think Lazer they see one sail only, and where is the fun in that? To which I must say I agree, and this is where the other dinghies that set main, jib and spinnaker come in.
Eliminating some excellent boats like the Fireball that don't have a commercial builder three possible contenders for our interest could be the Wayfarer, Hunter 170 and Martin 16. The first 2 are centerboard dinghies, the latter has 350 pound ballasted drop keel. None of them require trapeze work. There may be other designs that some of you would like to bring forward for discussion and consideration.
In terms of design, Ian Proctor created the Wayfarer in 1957 and it looks very much like a dinghy of that era. Having said that, it may well be the best all round dinghy ever built, and may well be the standard by which others are compared. There are others that are faster, but there are few that are more sea kindly. A remarkably forgiving design, it sets main, jib and spinnaker and are keenly raced in many fleets in North America and Europe, and are built by Abbott Boats in Ontario. The Picktonpit is surprisingly comfortable, and the boat rates 91.7 on the Portsmouth system.
The Hunter 170 by contrast, is a modern open transom design. Also setting 3 sails, it has a large ergonomically designed Picktonpit and rates 92.7 without spinnaker on the Portsmouth system. It actually is designed to set an asymmetrical chute. This implies that the H170 with spinnaker would be faster than the Wayfarer. Unlike the Wayfarer, you don't have to duck to get under the boom when tacking, because the Hunter offers sufficient headroom. It is designed to be single handed, but when racing and setting the chute a second crew is useful.
I have noted a local prejudice against Hunter boats, the claim being that they are too lightly built. I have not seen any evidence that would actually support such a claim, nor am I aware of any lawsuits against Hunter that would provide proof, unlike some other brands. Hunter claims that the material they use for the hull of the 170 is actually stronger than fiberglass, and in addition Hunter has an enviable record for service, which I was able to confirm through my own inquiries, which were answered the same day. Sunnybrook Yachts is a local Hunter dealer. The 170 is a worthy contender for our interest.
That leaves the Martin 16 which is an entirely different beast. Once again setting 3 sails and with a new taller rig, the Martin was originally designed for handicapped sailors. Built by Abbott Boats, the sail controls are a wonder of ease and sophistication, trimming both main and jib with a single line. As mentioned earlier the boat is actually ballasted, which takes it out of the league of the center boarders. It features a comfortable seat, joy stick steering and capacity for double handing. The Portsmouth rating is 99. These are also built by Abbott Boats Inc. in Ontario, which makes them reasonable accessible. A visit to the web site is worthwhile to learn more about them.
If you know of any other dinghies or keel boats that are currently being built that should be considered, bring them forward. That's plenty to chew on for now. I look forward to reading your comments.
Brian Pickton